Discussion

Let’s talk.

The singing fish
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37 thoughts on “Discussion”

  1. I can’t find farmed salmon in any grocery stores anymore, let alone affordable salmon. Grocery stores appear to have all been coerced by environmentalists to stop selling it. I love farmed salmon but can you help with where American consumers can buy it?

    1. Walmart and Costco for sure. I live in Victoria BC and find the same thing to be true here.

    1. They are also the only salmon farming company in North America that is certified by OceanWise as a Best Choice

      1. Too bad no one wants to talk about this company… we’ve written about them before, but still they get a free pass in the media and in the minds of environmentalists.

  2. Not sure sure if this is an appropriate place for this query, but here goes. I am from the west coast of Ireland and recenty a state agency has begun applying for aquaculture licenses along the coast, now having worked in the industry for several years i was pleased to hear of this investment, But as is always the case it was not long before a whole stream of groups were set up against these plans. Now a lot of what is been spouted is the same old rhetoric but a few are beginning to quote Canadian sources with regards to the effect salmon farming has on the local shellfish populations in particular crab, lobster and oysters. If you would have any comment or insight into which documents they may be referring to i would be extremely grateful. John.

    1. Another source for mis guided activist spew is articles like this

      http://thechronicleherald.ca/novascotia/148415-fish-farms-lobster-don-t-mix-expert-says

      quoting canada’s foremost salmon farm hater as a lobster expert. Despite her knowing absolutely nothing about lobsters. It is of note that despite these ridiculous claims: Lobster landings in Canada have increased steadily since the introduction of salmon farms in Atlantic Canada . Landings are now at record highs despite the fear-based nonsense espoused by haters.
      This model of activism has been unfortunately exported to the UK a while back in the form of timely press releases in an effort to influence important decisions such as the proposed Galway Bay farm. This exported model of activism also brought you the Krkosek et al 2013 study claiming 39% of wild salmon killed by sea lice . Which is of course complete horse shit.

      I am not aware of any scientific research here in Canada that suggests negative effects upon shellfish as a result of the activities at salmon farms.

      regards

      Bob Milne

    2. Thanks, only saw the replies now, i had thought they were referring to that event alright. Thank you Bob it is in fact the Galway bay fish farm i was refering to. The activism levels have skyrocketed here in the past few months with a government decision likely to arrive before the summer. The angling lobby here is very strong and they have the financial backing to be able to push the media in their favour, i.e. bringing up cases like the Krkosek et al comment but significantly forgetting to add the apology that came shortly after. We have a history of salmon farming in my area and the locals have always worked and the vast majority backed the farms.

  3. On the east coast, the Atlantic Salmon Federation has been pushing the closed containment salmon RAS systems, as a solution to save the wild salmon against the risk of farmed escapees. It seems a little more hypocritical, when you find out that ASF actually administered a sea ranching research breeding program in the 70’s and 80’s and released millions of hybrid salmon smolt in the Bay of Fundy. If ASF deem escapees as a risk to the wild, they may want to look into a mirror when pointing fingers. I for one don’t believe in the ASF rhetoric nor do I drink from the closed containment system fountain.

  4. Farm salmon fail the “Ecology 100 Food Pyramid test” for sustainable food production – as predators they consume too much animal energy to provide a logical food solution for humanity. Unless they can learn to eat veggies… No rancher would raise for example, tigers, for food for people. Each tiger would have to be fed, say, a goat a week for, say, one year when ready for slaughter. Better to feed people 52 goats than one tiger. The rancher would, in addition, go broke raising all those goats, unless (s)he could take them from the natural commons, say by getting poor people to go out and catch wild goats for peanuts and grind them into food for the tiger…in the end, the ecosystem loses and the poor people lose local food supply too.

  5. Bob I just heard on the news some Free Trade agreement might shut us down. Spent years with this company and they dont tell us? Is this true?

    1. Not likely. Morton, Bob Chamberlin and some environmental law group which makes a living purely from suing companies for perceived environmental wrongdoing convinced a NAFTA panel to take a closer look at BC salmon farms. That’s all it is.

      1. Right, that reminds me of the argument some industry people make against climate change concerns..

        “it’s a conspiracy put forward by scientists to enrich themselves”.

  6. I have no reason to suspect AM of lying while I have every reason to suspect industry of lying. It basically comes down to motivation. Alexandra’s motives, protect wild salmon because they are a keystone species. Industry motives, money.

    Nuff said.

    1. Hey, people lie for what they think are good reasons too. People do horrible things because they believe they are in the right. I am sure I don’t need to pull out a history book to find you some examples.

  7. i think your cause would be taken more seriously is you didnt use unproffesional language such as bullshitometer and didnt personally attack and ridicule the protesters of your cause

    1. Meh, it’s our blog, we’ll do what we like. We’re here to call a spade a spade, bullshit bullshit, and a ridiculous statement a ridiculous statement.

      And we back up everything we say with sources too.

  8. Hey, I thought the discussion rules said “personal attacks will not be tolerated.” Two of Bob Milne’s comments are personal attacks.

  9. Hello all

    Came across this site while surfing. I just wanted to share some of the work my company Open Water Systems has been doing on Manitoulin Island. In 2001 while at the NRC wave pool in Ottawa testing different wave breaking prototypes it dawned on me that instead of trying to absorb wave energies why not design an aquaculture rearing structure that allows wave energy to pass through it. I took the standard horizontal tube collars that fail during storm events and turned them into vertical spars with open truss connecting members. being a fish farmer for 12 years I wanted to be sure that harvest/feeding could be conducted as with a regular cage. The cage has been tested in high energy environments for 8 years.Here is a video link.

  10. Thanks. I have forwarded this to my source of this information as I don’t live close to a Costco to check myself.

    We need some Salmo are Sacred bumper stickers!!

  11. Love your site! A question … I was told Costco Atlantics are imported from Chile. This seems ludicrous to me and was wondering why BC doesn’t supply this chain store its farmed salmon.

    1. Thanks Dave,

      As far as we know, BC Costco stores stock farmed salmon from BC farms. Check the label and see if it says “product of Canada” on it. It’s our understanding that Chilean farmed salmon are sold mainly in the central part of North America.

  12. I wish to add to your assertion that the movement of the BC salmon farming production into on land CC Recirc systems will require the use of 745,000 liters of freshwater per day. I believe your math and logic is flawed and the actual requirement is far in excess of this amount.

    With a growout volume of 2500 m3, there is also a treatment facility volume as well. I couldn’t find the exact amount in the Namgis reports, so I will assume a generously low figure of 500 m3. This gives a total of 3000 m3.

    In a recirc system, the 99% recirc rate refers to the %age of the total flow being used in the system. The flow rate in a system is calculated to give a particular residence time. This is normally between 30 and 60 minutes for the water in a to make one full cycle. If we use the lower rate of a cycle, the total volume of the facility has flowed from the tanks to treatment and back to the tanks in 60 minutes. 3000m3 in 60 mminutes = 50 m3 per minute. So the total flow rate for the facility is 50 m3 per minute (50,000 lpm).

    99% of this water is reused. 1% is discarded, and 1% is replaced every minute. 49.5 m3 is reused, 0.5 is discarded and 0.5m3 of new water is added every minute.

    This 0.5m3 is the same as 500 lpm. 500 liters of new water is added to the system every minute, so In a day this is 720,000 liters.

    So you see this one farm is equal to Campbell Rivers daily water usage, not the entire BC industry, and this is at the low end of the usage.

    To produce the 70,000 tonnes, with 720,000 lpd producing 470 tonnes, I figure it to be something like 107,000,000 liters every day.

    1. Wow! Thanks for that Jim. We initially did a very simple calculation and you appear to be right, our math was flawed.

      Your more in-dept calculation takes into account the real-world performance of a RAS system, accounting for a realistic flow rate.

      Thanks for sharing that, and we will put an addendum in the original post linking to your comment here.

      Thanks again for pointing this out. Your calculations suggest land-based salmon farms would be a far huger and more concerning use of freshwater than we ever imagined.

      1. Don’t forget this is also on the low end. If you increase the flow rate in the system and maintain a 99% recirc rate, you increase the demand for freshwater. New systems are being designed with flow rates which approach the 30 minute end of the tank residence time. This would almost double the FW demand.

        In addition, the stated final density is 90 kg/m3. It has to be this high to achieve the 470 mt per year with the avauilable tank volume. They also have to be able to grow a 5 kg market salmon from a 100g smolt in under 12 months. These are important assumptions which if not achieved will drastically affect the production and hence the economic viability.

        I would suspect the real production level is going to be somewhere in the 250 mt per year range.

  13. Hey can we have a discussion about the Staniford verdict? I think it is interesting that the defamation case was thrown out on the grounds that the guy is nut bar enough to believe his own spew. Is this not a precedent in its own right? The words from the judge state in no uncertain terms that he is an activist and clearly disregards peer-reviewed science when it disagrees with his mantra. Facts are no deterrant
    Perhaps the field is becoming more level and the brainwashed salmon farm hating ( i love that one) activists can now be referred to approprately rather than sea-lice expert. Doctor, or whatever hat of the week

  14. Is this an appropriate place to say thank you thank you thank you for everyone involved in this blog?

    regards

    Bob Milne – dedicated aquaculturist and lover of science

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